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From Script to Stage: The Journey of Theatrical Creation

Gary Wayne Barker, a renowned director, actor, professor, and associate dean at St. Louis University shares insights of his direction of Arthur Miller's 'All My Sons kicking off the 26th season of the New Jewish Theatre. He reflects on his journey from acting to high-level academia and directing, emphasizing the value of multi-faceted skills in the arts. Barker also discusses the challenges and dynamics of producing theater in various venues and the nuanced process of casting and directing a play.

Additionally, the conversation touches on the ongoing struggle to engage contemporary audiences with traditional theater forms and the significance of the arts in society. The episode wraps up by discussing an upcoming production of 'All My Sons' and offering advice for aspiring theater professionals.

[00:00] Welcome to St. Louis in Tune: A Dive into Theater and Its Impact

[00:56] Springtime Vibes and the Anticipation of the Eclipse

[01:35] The Etiquette of Theater Attendance: Do's and Don'ts

[02:11] The Evolution of Movie Theater Experiences

[03:41] Spotlight on Gary Wayne Barker: From Actor to Academic Leader

[07:09] The Art of Directing: Challenges and Adaptations

[14:12] All My Sons: A Deep Dive into Arthur Miller's Classic

[20:04] Casting Insights: The Process Behind the Scenes

[23:25] Saint Louis In Tune: Reflecting on the Show's Mission and Reach

[27:36] A Charmed Experience in Theater Production

[28:13] The Art of Assembling a Creative Team

[30:09] St. Louis: A Surprisingly Big Theater City

[31:43] Reviving Theater in the Modern Age

[36:01] The Director's Role: Vision, Flexibility, and Collaboration

[44:23] Advice for Aspiring Theater Artists

[48:48] Closing Thoughts and Humor to Lighten the Day

This is Season 7! For more episodes, go to stlintune.com

#njt #arthurmiller #allmysons #newjewishtheatre #plays #theatre #theatreproductions #theatredirecting

Transcript
Arnold:

How many of you out there like theater?

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If you're driving, please don't

raise your hand, but the theater is

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an extremely important aspect of our

life There are many theaters in St.

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Louis here But there's a theater group

who received 24 nominations last year

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and that's something to talk about and

we're going to talk about that today

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Welcome to st Louis in tune and thank

you for joining us for fresh perspectives

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on issues and events with experts

community leaders and everyday people

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Who are driving change and making an

impact that shapes our society and world.

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I'm Arnold Stricker with Mark Langston.

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Mark, how are you, sir?

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Mark: I'm great, thank you.

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And Mark is fine.

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You don't have to call me sir.

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Hey, you bum.

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What's going on over there?

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I know it.

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Not much, just enjoying that the

temperatures have finally changed.

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I'm not sure when this will be, when

you'll hear this, because we do replay

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them and but getting ready for the big

eclipse, which is less than a week away.

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So that's going to be fun.

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Arnold: One of my favorite times

of year, springtime, where you

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see the renewal of trees and

plants and flowers and the grass.

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Yeah.

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People who live in a, what I would

call a one climate, It's, I'm sure

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they get used to that and they love

the aspects of that, whether it be

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in Alaska or maybe down in Florida.

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However, it's always nice to see

the seasons change and really enjoy

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seeing the color out right now.

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Yeah.

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The greens.

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Mark: Yeah.

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. Arnold: Our return to civility.

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If you're sitting in the middle of a row

of seats, especially at the theater, be

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mindful of how many times you get up.

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Proper planning can

prevent poor performance.

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Every time you get up, you

make everyone else get up too.

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To let you buy Now in a

sporting event, I get it.

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Yeah.

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But like theater, oh, I'm

laughing in like the symphony.

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I'm laughing.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, let's get the bathroom

stuff done all out of the way.

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You're not eating popcorn or

drinking soda or stuff like that.

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Mark: My son Michael loves

the movies, goes all the time.

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I think he's seen every

movie that comes out.

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It's just his thing, it's his hobby,

so I go with him a lot and it's, have

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you been to a movie theater in a while?

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It's the cell phone people watching the

cell phones that are sitting up in front

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of you and And then, oh, and then the

ruffling of the bags when they're going

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after the popcorn, is nodding his head.

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I, oh it's The

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Arnold: theater we go to, they like,

they have the cell phone police.

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And you sit back in some Lazy Boy

chairs and you can order, and they'll

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bring your order, your popcorn and

your soda, whatever you're getting.

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And if somebody's got a cell

phone out, you just push a button

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and they, the cell phone police

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Mark: come out.

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It's been rough for me to go to movie

theaters lately, I have to admit.

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And then the talking is, and I do, my,

my son's always don't be that guy, dad.

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And I go, no, I'm gonna be that guy.

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I can't help.

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And I go, come on y'all.

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Quiet down.

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We're trying to listen to the

movie, so I, I don't know.

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I'm adding to it or making it

worse, but it becomes another event.

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It does.

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I know.

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It's not fun.

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It's not, sometimes it's not fun.

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Yeah.

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I

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Arnold: go to see the movie.

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I don't go to hear you talk about the

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Mark: movie.

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Oh.

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And, but the Cell phones is the absolute.

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And they're always the ones that

are sitting in front of you.

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Naturally.

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And they don't even dim the,

you shouldn't have your cell

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phone out for looking, yeah.

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All right.

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So I'm an old crabby man, I know.

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If you're worried about what people are

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Arnold: thinking or doing on social media

at that time, you're in the wrong venue.

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Yeah, that's right.

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Give it a break.

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So if you're sitting in the middle

of a row of seats, be mindful of how

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many times you get up, whether it's

at a sporting event, at a movie.

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Even a theater at the theater.

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Oh, yeah Symphony Hall speaking

about the theater Gary Wayne Barker

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who is a director and actor also a

professor and associate dean at St.

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Louis University is here to talk to

us about the 20 where is it here?

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26 season of the new Jewish theater

and it's kicked off With the play by

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Arthur Miller called all my sons Gary.

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Welcome to st.

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Louis in tune.

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No, thank you so much It's

an honor to be here now.

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I mentioned st.

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Louis University You And you are a

local, and I guess, regional actor.

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Yes.

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And you've done some directing,

and you started teaching at SLU

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20 plus years ago as the chair of

the theater department, I believe.

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Is that correct?

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Gary: No but close.

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I came for a faculty position and then

over time I became like director of

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theater and then eventually chair of

the department of fine and performing

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arts, which includes music, art history,

studio art, theater, and dance, and then

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I moved to the Dean's office ultimately.

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Do you miss I teach a little

bit, not nearly as much as I did.

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And I still direct in the

program occasionally as well.

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Arnold: Yeah.

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What was the impetus to, move

up into academia the way you

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did to be an associate dean?

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Gary: I found that I had some

administrative skills and that I enjoyed

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it as I got some positions like that

director of theater and then chair of

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the department, I found that it used a

part of me that the classroom did not.

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I also found that it was drawing on

my skill set as a director I was Like,

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keeping a lot of plates spinning, a

theatrical director has to do that.

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And so I liked that aspect.

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And then I would also say that in

the administration at SLU there

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were, there really weren't people

who came from an arts background.

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And I was eager to sit at tables that

I wasn't sitting at and be a part of

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conversations for overall university

planning and give an arts perspective.

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That was important to me.

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Arnold: Doing what you've done in the

theater is very similar to musicians,

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band directors, choir directors, orchestra

directors who have this arts background.

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I was a band director type and

retired as an administrator, that

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you have a different set of skills.

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And just like you said, I've got

a lot of plates spinning and I'm

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able to manage that and work with a

variety, a wide variety of people.

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And it really just gives a you

do have that skill set that can

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be used for what I would call

the greater good or more people.

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Gary: Yes, for sure.

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And it's, We don't use this phrase in

the theater really, but it's project

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management is the way most people think

about it and because you're dealing

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with a lot of different ideas trying

to get people behind a unified vision

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and As a director you also are trying

to move other people along the cast

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towards that vision and there's a there's

some psychology involved in that if

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you will and An administrator has to

have those skills skill sets as well.

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Arnold: That's correct.

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When you started as an actor,

and you've performed at a

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variety of venues here in St.

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Louis.

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You performed at New Jersey Theater,

Tennessee Williams, Moonstone,

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The Rep, and a lot of other ones

that before we got started you

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said even that don't exist yet.

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The move from acting to directing,

you haven't done as much directing

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as acting obviously, but why the

that particular kind of position?

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Gary: I don't really know that

it was a conscious decision.

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As an academic, I started my

career at smaller universities.

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Compared to St.

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Louis University.

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And it's a given, if you are on

the performance side of things,

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that you're also going to direct.

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So it was an expectation, even though I

wasn't trained as a director, it was an

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expectation that I was going to direct.

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Direct in the academic season.

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So those were skills that I had to

develop And then when I began to pursue

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my professional career prior to moving to

st Louis parallel with my academic career

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and then certainly when I moved to st.

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Louis to a much larger city with so many

more options I'm trained as an actor and

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I Made myself available for that first,

but then over time as people saw my work I

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also made myself available as a director.

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So in comparison, I haven't done

as much directing as acting in st.

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Louis, but I've been directing

since I Got out of grad school.

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Arnold: Okay, so these particular venues

that I talked about like New Jewish

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Theatre, Tennessee Williams, Moonstone

rap etc How as an actor, I'm gonna,

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this is a two, two prong question.

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As an actor and then as a director,

even though you may not have

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directed at all of these, how does

the venue change the production?

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Or does it change it in any way?

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In as far as like Shakespeare in the park,

obviously there's a huge audience there.

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Versus maybe at the rep it's dark.

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It's still a contained close audience.

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Moonstones, different kind of venue.

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They're all different kind of venues.

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Does that change the production

from an acting perspective or

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directing perspective in any way?

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Gary: Yeah, for both.

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The size of the venue as

an actor has a big impact.

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I think about, I've performed with the

Shakespeare festival in the park, a couple

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of shows and the, just the sheer size,

what it asks of you physically and what it

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asks of you vocally they use microphones.

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So that's a, that's an interesting dynamic

of I don't have to vocally project to make

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sure that the back row hears me because

the microphone assists in that way, but

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physically I have to be larger for the

back row to be able to see what I'm doing.

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So that's an interesting juxtaposition.

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A studio theater the new Jewish theater

is a little over a hundred seats but it's

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a, black box configuration and the seating

can change based on the production.

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So we're doing all my sons in a thrust

configuration, which means that there

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are audience is seated on three sides,

think about similar to the rep right main

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stage configuration, but that should,

that theater has also been configured

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in an, in the round audience on four

sides, but it's also been configured.

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I directed a show there, which

was done in a proscenium.

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So audience on one side

action on the other side.

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So that changes things for an

actor and director in that you've

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got to realize, depending on the

configuration, that you may have

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your back to people at some times.

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And so you've got to keep moving,

if you will, so that someone in the

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audience is getting a face hopefully

more regularly than not in an

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proscenium, you don't really stand

in a nose to nose configuration.

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You cheat out a little

bit so that the audience.

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What you do posture wise,

yeah, it, it all, there are

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scenery implications, right?

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Yeah.

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The venue influences all of those things.

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Mark: Gary.

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Gary, would you.

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Gary.

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Do you prefer a larger audience or

does it matter or a smaller audience

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that more intimate atmosphere?

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What are you as a actor?

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How do you, what do you prefer?

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I

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Gary: don't,

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Mark: I

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Gary: don't think it's, I

don't really have a preference.

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Hopefully the size of the venue

is helping tell the story.

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And the shows that let's

say the Muni would do.

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You wouldn't be able to do them

at that scale in a small 100

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seat black box theater without

completely reconceiving the show.

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And I think Some people are saying to

me about all my sons that they've seen

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it in the past, but they saw it in a

bigger venue and that for, I had an email

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yesterday from someone saying that they

responded much more to this production

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in part because they believe because

of the intimacy of it, where they do.

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It's a little more film like in that

way that they were really right on top

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of the emotions if you will So I think

there are shows that are written that

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really need an intimate setting in the

way films might be made for a little

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art house kind of theater versus the

Huge IMAX or the huge, Marvel comics

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on the IMAX or something like that.

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It's about this, for me, it's about

the scope of what the story needs.

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And yeah, that would be my answer.

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Yeah.

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Arnold: This is Arnold Strucker

with Mark Langston of St.

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Louis in Tune.

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And that's a great question, Mark, because

I was wondering You know you when you're

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when you and you weren't the one doing

it, but when Theaters choose productions

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that they're going to do right.

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They really need to take into

consideration their size The capacity

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how they can arrange things and

does that fit this particular play?

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I've always wanted to do that G, but we

don't have the theater to do that And

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I guess if you do it anyway, you may

My words crash and burn, or it may not

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come off like you really want it to.

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Gary: Yeah, I think the New Jewish

Theatres, which I had nothing to

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do with, the New Jewish Theatres

production prior to All My Sons was

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Stephen Sondheim's Into the Woods.

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That typically is done in a much

larger venue and They found a really

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interesting way to reconceive it for

that small black box theater and it

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won award and award of an award at the

recent theater circle awards here in st.

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Louis and it was part of because it was

so fresh and innovative to take that

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show that would normally be a Quite

big, and make it far more intimate.

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It allowed an audience to

see it in a whole new way.

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Arnold: And that really, and I

hate to even say it like this,

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you have to think outside the box.

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Not the black box, but you have to

really, innovation's a great word

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for that, you have to, how can I

pull this off, and still maintain

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the flavor of the play, and yet have

people really seem to buy into that.

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Yep.

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Now again folks, we're

talking to Gary Wayne Barker.

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He's a celebrated director, actor,

professor, and associate dean at St.

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Louis University.

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And Gary, this is the first Play in the

theater's 26th season the new Jewish

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theater's 26th season and we're coming

folks to the end of the run of this So

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if you're gonna see it You better get

out there and see it because it's over

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April the 7th And as we are broadcasting

it is April the 2nd So you have five

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days to get there and get that done

questions about that talk a little bit

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about All My Sons by Arthur Miller.

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What can, give a little

brief synopsis of it.

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Don't obviously give it all

away because then why do I

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need to go see the play then?

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What is it about to tantalize people

to hook them to come see this?

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Gary: All right I'll

do my best to be brief.

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It is American classic.

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The play written in the mid 20th century.

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Arthur Miller was looking for

a story that would explore the

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implications of World War II.

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And he.

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Became aware of a real life event that

occurred in Ohio, where a factory that

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provided parts for airplanes there was a

great scandal that defective parts went

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out and If I understand this correctly,

there were military inspectors who

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were involved in that scandal as well.

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They looked the other way on things.

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And so it, it made the newspapers

and he thought, that's it.

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That's the story I've been looking for.

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And now he changed details and he

made, he centered it around a family

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and he patterned the family dynamic in

terms of, a husband, a wife, and two

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sons after his own family, which was

not true about the actual Ohio event.

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So it's about these two business partners

who are also next door neighbors.

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This is all pre, before the

story begins in the play.

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They owned a manufacturing plant that

provided airplane parts and defective

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parts were sent out and they both were.

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Tried and convicted for that.

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But Joe Keller and we the play revolves

around the family of the Keller.

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He was ultimately acquitted

and the partner went to prison.

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. Joe Keller had two, son has

two sons, both in the military.

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One came home and the other.

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It was either killed or missing in action.

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The family, particularly the

mother, refuses to believe that

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the son is not alive somewhere.

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And in the time that has elapsed years,

but a short number of years the son

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who has returned has passed away.

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Developed a relationship with his missing

brother's fiance and now they are a

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couple and the mother and particularly

will not accept that because that

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would be an indication that we now

believe that the other brother is dead.

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All right.

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And Ultimately, the play is

exploring the idea of what is

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our responsibility to the world?

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Do we have a responsibility

to take care of our family

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and the people we care about?

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Or do we have a responsibility to the

whole world, hence the title, All My Sons?

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And throughout the course of the play,

it becomes a question as to How complicit

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was Joe Keller, this business partner?

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Yes, he was found not guilty, but that's

not the same thing as being innocent.

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Arnold: Very interesting.

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I'm always intrigued at how playwrights

come up with what they want to do.

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And you mentioned that Miller interjected

his family, much like Tennessee Williams

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interjected his whole life into.

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many of his plays.

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Is this a common theme that

you see playwrights do?

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They insert parts of their lives into

or why do we remember Tennessee Williams

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doing that and Arthur Miller doing

that and maybe some others haven't?

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Gary: I think certainly playwrights or

writers and creative writers in general,

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it's probably not surprising that they

may draw on their life experience, right?

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And that may find its way into

their poetry or their short

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stories or whatever it may be.

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And then there are other writers who are.

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really pulling things out of

their imagination from what

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we know about Shakespeare.

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There wasn't a great deal of

Shakespeare's life that was folded

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into Shakespeare's writing, assuming

Shakespeare wrote them at all.

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But that's another show.

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So I think it's I think it varies.

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I have a good friend who's a

writer, not a playwright, and

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she's writing to make sense of her.

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life experience.

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And then I think there are others

who completely make things up out

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of just a fertile imagination.

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Arnold: I found when I was reading about

the play, because some of the notes,

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that when they were talking about the

airplane parts that were defective,

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I immediately thought of Boeing.

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Gary: Yes, that, we had a talk back

last week and an audience member

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brought that up about did any of us

want to comment on the parallels?

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And I spoke up first

and went, no, I don't.

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I actually don't want to comment on that.

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I have to fly.

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But yes, certainly people are making

connections and All things old are new

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Arnold: again.

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And that's, and it's amazing how,

there are problems in society

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that just come back around.

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Come back around, yeah.

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They're like in this

cyclical kind of pattern.

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Yeah, very well put.

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It is.

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And that's how I answer the question.

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Old things are new again.

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Old things

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Mark: are new, yeah, I

wish I could be new again.

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Arnold: So we're, we've, we got a couple

minutes to a break, but I wanted to

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Let's talk about the actors in this.

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Some of them have never acted at the

New Jewish Theater before, and some

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of them have the youngster, he's

a was in the youth program there.

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Yeah.

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And some have been there

before, and have you worked

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with any of these actors before?

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Gary: Oh, yeah.

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:

The two actors who play the parents

Joe and Kate Keller Greg Johnston

367

:

and Amy Louie I've directed both

of them before Greg and I have

368

:

performed together before, so I have

a longstanding relationship with them.

369

:

The rest of them I may have seen

on stage, some I had not seen on

370

:

stage and were completely new to me.

371

:

Arnold: Did you have a Were you on

the selection committee of that?

372

:

Okay.

373

:

Yeah.

374

:

Yeah.

375

:

So it's like a typical audition, like a

musical audition, they get up and read or

376

:

you say, here's a script, go for it or?

377

:

Gary: Every theater might handle this

a little differently but there are

378

:

some things that one might expect.

379

:

In this case there were

excerpts of the script that

380

:

were made available in advance.

381

:

And so people could choose to come in

with that, depending on which role they

382

:

were interested in, they could come in

and have prepared that to whatever level.

383

:

And that way I knew they were

interested in a particular role.

384

:

And then perhaps I would see something

and say okay, but I'd also like to

385

:

hear you for this other role as well.

386

:

Yeah.

387

:

Okay.

388

:

Interesting.

389

:

Arnold: Yeah.

390

:

I always like to what's in the mind of

somebody, what are they looking for I

391

:

Mark: think it'd be tough to figure

out what role someone's going to be in.

392

:

Oh yeah.

393

:

I personally, I think it'd be tough.

394

:

I guess sometimes it speaks to you and

tells you, but I think if sometimes when

395

:

it's got to be challenging, I would think.

396

:

Gary: Yeah.

397

:

Yeah it is because there are so many

considerations there there's the

398

:

quote unquote rightness for the role.

399

:

I'm also interested in what kind

of experience and training do

400

:

they have because that's going to

inform how they approach something.

401

:

Although it's not a given that just

because you have more training or

402

:

experience that you're necessarily

going to be the one who gets it.

403

:

But I look at that kind of thing.

404

:

And then when you're casting

a family you might also take

405

:

into consideration genetics.

406

:

Do they look like they

could be a family, right?

407

:

I had an actor that I'm a great fan of

and read really well for one of the roles.

408

:

But once I started making

decisions, I was like, I just.

409

:

I couldn't use him, although he would have

been brilliant in it, because he wasn't

410

:

going to look like the person that I had

cast in another role, and they needed

411

:

to be related from a family perspective.

412

:

Because otherwise I think an audience,

when you tell them that this is true,

413

:

and then if they have that kind of

disconnect from what they see, it's noise.

414

:

It's noise in their head.

415

:

Arnold: It's a distraction from

really what the play is about.

416

:

Can

417

:

Gary: be.

418

:

Arnold: Okay.

419

:

All right.

420

:

Well, we're Stricker

with Mark Langston of St.

421

:

Louis In Tune.

422

:

We'll We're going to talk more with

Gary Barker who is directing the All

423

:

My Sons by Arthur Miller at the 26th

season of the New Jewish Theater.

424

:

We'll be right back.

425

:

This is Arnold Stricker of St.

426

:

Louis in Tune on behalf of the

Dred Scott Heritage Foundation.

427

:

In 1857 the Dred Scott decision was

a major legal event and catalyst

428

:

that contributed to the Civil War.

429

:

The decision declared that

Dred Scott could not be free

430

:

because he was not a citizen.

431

:

The 14th Amendment was passed.

432

:

Also called the Dred Scott Amendment,

granted citizenship to all born or

433

:

naturalized here in our country,

and was intended to overturn the U.

434

:

S.

435

:

Supreme Court decision on July 9th, 1868.

436

:

The Dred Scott Heritage Foundation

is requesting a commemorative

437

:

stamp to be issued from the U.

438

:

S.

439

:

Postal Service to recognize

and remember Dred Scott.

440

:

The heritage of this amendment by issuing

a stamp with the likeness of the man

441

:

Dred Scott, but we need your support

and the support of thousands of people

442

:

who would like to see this happen.

443

:

To achieve this goal, we ask you

to download, sign, and share the

444

:

one page petition with others.

445

:

To find the petition,

please go to dredscottlives.

446

:

org and click on the Dred Scott petition

drive on the right side of the page.

447

:

On behalf of the Dred Scott

Heritage Foundation, this has

448

:

been Arnold Stricker of St.

449

:

Louis in Tune.

450

:

Mark: Thanks for listening to St.

451

:

Louis In Tune.

452

:

On each and every show we strive to

bring you informative, useful, and

453

:

reflective stories and interviews about

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454

:

that involve people, places, and things.

455

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Hey, we cover a wide range of content.

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And the arts, crime, education,

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457

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sports, and that's just to name a few.

458

:

While St.

459

:

Louis In Tune originates from the Gateway

City and covers local topics, we connect

460

:

to what is going on nationally as well.

461

:

If you missed any of our

previously aired programs of St.

462

:

Louis In Tune, simply visit stlintune.

463

:

com.

464

:

That's stlintune.

465

:

com.

466

:

There you'll find every show from

our first to our most current.

467

:

Use the search engine and look for

a show that might interest you.

468

:

And if you have an area that you'd

like us to examine deeper, let us know.

469

:

Just drop us a line at stlintune at gmail.

470

:

com.

471

:

That's stlintune at gmail.

472

:

com.

473

:

St.

474

:

Louis in tune.

475

:

Heard Monday through Friday

on the usradionetwork.

476

:

com and many great stations around the

U S and of course, right here in St.

477

:

Louis.

478

:

Our website again is stlintune.

479

:

com stlintune.

480

:

com

481

:

Arnold: Welcome back to St.

482

:

Louis in Tune.

483

:

This is Arnold Stricker

with Mark Langston.

484

:

We are talking with Gary Barker.

485

:

He's a celebrated director

and actor in the St.

486

:

Louis area.

487

:

Also a professor and associate dean at St.

488

:

Louis University.

489

:

And you don't want to miss All My

Sons at the Jays Wool Studio Theater,

490

:

which is out in, where Creve Corrush

area, 2 Millstone Campus Drive.

491

:

And the performance will cease.

492

:

So you have several days to get out.

493

:

Their performances are Thursdays

at 730, Saturdays at 4 and 8 p.

494

:

m., and Sundays at 2 p.

495

:

m.

496

:

Folks, you can get tickets.

497

:

Call 314 442 3283 or go

online to newjewishtheater.

498

:

org.

499

:

And this does open the new

500

:

Mark: season though.

501

:

So it opened the new season.

502

:

So there'll be more after this.

503

:

Yes.

504

:

Arnold: Yeah.

505

:

Mark: Many

506

:

Arnold: more.

507

:

So matter of fact, they have we, we

all fall down starts May 30th to June

508

:

16th, I do that every day, red, not

the theater portion, July 25th through

509

:

August the 11th, and then is it trife

September 12th and first date, November.

510

:

21st through December the 8th.

511

:

So all the way through December

folks, the 26th season.

512

:

And remember that they were nominated,

had 24 nominations last year.

513

:

So this is not some fly by night

theater production company.

514

:

They know what they're doing.

515

:

They hired Gary to direct the very

first production coming out of the

516

:

Mark: chute.

517

:

I was going to say Gary has

quite a resume of his own.

518

:

He does.

519

:

Accolades to go along with it.

520

:

Arnold: What's been the biggest

challenge on this particular play, Gary?

521

:

Gary: I should have an answer to that,

but I don't because it really was charmed

522

:

the, from the initial design meetings

to, The rehearsal process, I was telling

523

:

a friend yesterday, I was like, this

really was a very charmed experience.

524

:

So there there weren't major pitfalls

or hurdles that had to be overcome.

525

:

It's really been.

526

:

Delicious.

527

:

Arnold: But I think that speaks, though,

to, okay, hey, we need a lighting person,

528

:

oh, we need a sound person, we need a

set person, we need a costume person,

529

:

and people that are doing that who are

of high quality and know what they're

530

:

doing, they've been in the industry,

and I don't know if you had any Say in

531

:

who those people were or whether that

was done from the ultimately from the

532

:

theater director that really helps.

533

:

That's not a really supporting cast.

534

:

It's Hey, you're arm and arm with them.

535

:

Gary: Yeah, a hundred percent.

536

:

Every.

537

:

Every theater might handle

that a little differently.

538

:

Sometimes a director is hired in

and the team is already assembled.

539

:

What I've experienced more is that

the director may be one of the

540

:

first people hired, and then they

are consulted in to who they might

541

:

with who they think would be good at

the particular needs of this show.

542

:

So this one was a combination.

543

:

The costume designer, the brilliant

Michelle Seiler is the resident costume

544

:

designer for the new Jewish theater.

545

:

And so she's just a given.

546

:

And that is a given I'm a

hundred percent on board with.

547

:

And then some of the other designers

I was able to say, Oh, I think.

548

:

This person in town or this

person would be really useful.

549

:

The scenic designer was someone I

knew by reputation, Otis Sweezy.

550

:

He's a retired faculty member from

SIUE and we had never met, but

551

:

I was aware of him by reputation

and since his retirement, he's

552

:

able to come out and play more.

553

:

And so it was a delight to

be able to work with him.

554

:

Amanda Ware, the sound designer.

555

:

We've worked together

on previous productions.

556

:

She's on faculty at Webster

Conservatory right now.

557

:

And so I had some input but yeah the, it's

the artistic director's responsibility

558

:

to ultimately assemble that team.

559

:

But I got input.

560

:

Arnold: Is the theater.

561

:

community in, I'm speaking of the

actors and the scenery people and

562

:

the costumes and sound people,

is it a small community in St.

563

:

Louis?

564

:

I don't want to say a medium size,

large, in comparison to like obviously

565

:

Hollywood, that's a whole nother

deal, but a lot, it's like St.

566

:

Louis is this big, small town

where you run into people or, yeah,

567

:

I know that person over there,

they've done this work over here at

568

:

this theater and things like that.

569

:

Gary: Yeah, it is that.

570

:

Do we have the Depth of bench.

571

:

I shouldn't use sports

compared references.

572

:

Do we have the depth of people

participating that Chicago would have?

573

:

No, we don't.

574

:

But what I found when I moved here,

and this has remained true, St.

575

:

Louis is a bigger theater city

than a city this size should have.

576

:

So in my experience like Dallas Fort

Worth, you would think would have

577

:

so much more, but in reality St.

578

:

Louis has historically, it ebbs

and flows, has more professional

579

:

theater opportunities than

you would experience there.

580

:

That would be certainly true comparison

to New Orleans or even Minneapolis now.

581

:

Seattle used to be a

big theater city, but.

582

:

But theaters have fallen on hard

times in the United States, and so

583

:

it's not as much as it once was.

584

:

So we punch above our weight in St.

585

:

Louis in theater.

586

:

Arnold: I was going to ask,

why do you think that is?

587

:

But you answered that.

588

:

That, the pandemic, I know, did

a lot to destroy a whole lot of

589

:

things, especially in the arts.

590

:

That's right.

591

:

So how do you think, and say I'm a

student of yours at SLU, how do we get

592

:

theater back on the No pun intended

the main stage of people's Where I

593

:

want to choose to spend my money.

594

:

I don't want to go to the ballgame

tonight I don't want to watch the TV show.

595

:

I don't want to go to the movies

Maybe I should go to the theater.

596

:

How do you put that back on

the main stage for people?

597

:

Gary: Oh, if I knew that I'd set up

a consulting firm I think the arts in

598

:

this country and around the world And

I'm saying arts right broadly I are

599

:

struggling with this as to what the art

form is going to mean to a new generation.

600

:

And so symphonies and philharmonic

orchestras have been struggling

601

:

with this for decades now, actually.

602

:

And so this is part of the reason

that we will see them doing more

603

:

popular programming, like the

playing the soundtrack to a Harry

604

:

Potter movie or whatever it may be.

605

:

So really trying to draw in a new

audience and help them see relevance.

606

:

Theater has been theater has been

coming to that brainstorming a bit

607

:

later than say the professional music

world has, but it's definitely, it is

608

:

definitely struggling with that now.

609

:

Because.

610

:

People's attendance patterns and

spending patterns have changed.

611

:

From what I read, a contemporary

demographic is far less likely to

612

:

buy a subscription to anything.

613

:

And that was how those, that's how

those venues theater and Symphony.

614

:

Symphony.

615

:

That was their bread and butter.

616

:

It was a subscription, a subscriber base.

617

:

And, but that's not where

a contemporary audience is.

618

:

They want the freedom to be able to

say I'll go see this show, but I'm

619

:

not going to commit to five shows.

620

:

Arnold: Right.

621

:

Gary: Or whatever it may be.

622

:

So yeah, this is the professional

arts venues are really

623

:

wrestling with this question.

624

:

Arnold: I know in the.

625

:

In the orchestral world, there was, a

lot of it relates to certain conductors,

626

:

that when they come into a symphony

orchestra, they, maybe, I always play the

627

:

classics, we always do the classics, or

we always, all we're going to do is modern

628

:

music from, this time period forward.

629

:

You really almost now, to me, this,

what I would like to hear, I would

630

:

like to hear a variety something that

I can attach to the old classics, okay,

631

:

challenge me with this new piece and

give me some middle of the road stuff.

632

:

To get a varied program together is

extremely difficult to, you don't

633

:

want to, you can't make everybody

happy because then you make everybody

634

:

miserable but at the same time you

can't focus on one end and ostracize

635

:

another group on the other side.

636

:

Is that very similar in It

637

:

Gary: is.

638

:

And I think a good artistic director

who would be making those kinds of

639

:

like season choices that's a skill set

640

:

Music: that

641

:

Gary: not everybody has to be able to

think about what's going to be what's

642

:

going to be commercial, what's going to

sell, but what might also be appropriately

643

:

challenging to an audience, ask them

to expand their taste some what's

644

:

current in terms of really engaging

with contemporary ideas what gives

645

:

appropriate, recognition of a classic.

646

:

I think you asked a moment ago, what

was the challenge with this production?

647

:

And it hasn't proven to be a product,

a challenge, but I but this is a

648

:

very classically inspired play.

649

:

It's a very I'm hesitant to use

the word traditional because that

650

:

might be off putting to some of the

listening audience, but it has a very

651

:

clear beginning, middle, and end.

652

:

And postmodern playwrights are

not really writing plays in

653

:

that dramatic structure anymore.

654

:

They're far more influenced

by film and TV and the quick

655

:

edits and so on and so forth.

656

:

And so I was curious to see what, how the

audience would respond to something that's

657

:

traditional in the way a story is told.

658

:

But in fact, people have been responding

really quite positively to it.

659

:

And it's been interesting to just

sit and watch and see how people are

660

:

engaged with this compelling story, even

though it's not told in a way that you

661

:

might experience watching an HBO film.

662

:

Arnold: Yeah, I'm glad you said what

you just said because we've talked to

663

:

other directors before and One said, I

remember in particular, I go to opening

664

:

night and then I don't show up anymore

because the work's already been done.

665

:

It's now in the actors, it's their show.

666

:

It's not my show anymore.

667

:

And he said something I

thought was fascinating.

668

:

You're not watching the actors,

you're watching the audience to see

669

:

what the response is going to be.

670

:

How many times do you, or have you,

in your directing, seen the response

671

:

of an audience and go that's not

really what I was anticipating,

672

:

it's not what I really wanted.

673

:

We're going to tweak the show a

little bit to, have you done that, or?

674

:

Gary: Not in professional theater.

675

:

Once opening night occurs, my job

is finished, and it really would

676

:

be inappropriate for me to come

back in and reconceive something.

677

:

If you're at a theater, and this would

be a larger theater with a longer

678

:

run while you're still in previews,

you might get But you're getting that

679

:

audience response and so it's still

appropriate to do some tweaking.

680

:

But once opening happens, it's

really not appropriate to go

681

:

back in and tinker in that way.

682

:

The most I might do is give a note

to the stage manager and say Oh, wow.

683

:

Just please remind them to keep

their volume up that, that all of

684

:

those bodies are soaking up sound.

685

:

Gotcha.

686

:

And so I might.

687

:

I might gently say something like

that But it would be through the stage

688

:

manager because really the stage manager

is in control once the production

689

:

opens Academic theater is different.

690

:

I would say I have tweaked a little bit

in academic theater because the overall

691

:

purpose is the training of those students.

692

:

And so making an adjustment from

one weekend to the next could be

693

:

a valuable learning experience,

even though that's not what they

694

:

would experience in the classroom.

695

:

professional theater For their overall

training they might hear from me in that

696

:

my job is not done on opening night in

academic theater in the same Way, okay

697

:

Arnold: Yeah, it really is and this is

why I really enjoy picking people's brains

698

:

about this because you know Somebody

who's going through the process or your

699

:

general I'm sitting in the audience.

700

:

I wonder what the director's thinking

in this particular situation or why

701

:

they chose this particular You know

set or why they're doing it this

702

:

way and which brings me to this

question Is that you've probably

703

:

seen this play done before maybe not

704

:

Gary: I was in it.

705

:

Arnold: Okay.

706

:

That helps a lot That's how many

times do you read the script as

707

:

a director to get into your mind

exactly what you want to do?

708

:

I

709

:

Gary: I don't have it's not a,

it's not a fixed resume recipe.

710

:

It's drawn on experience about

711

:

Arnold: where you are at the time or?

712

:

Gary: Yeah.

713

:

I'm going to read it multiple times

but there's not a fixed number.

714

:

Okay.

715

:

But yeah, I'm going to read it multiple

times over a period of time as well,

716

:

assuming I have a period of time.

717

:

Yeah.

718

:

In my prep time, I'm going to read it

multiple times to see What new insight

719

:

I get or I'll read it with a particular

Lens in mind meaning I might read it one

720

:

time just to okay this time I'm, just

reading it to see what the prop needs

721

:

are and this time i'm going to read it to

just see what the visual images are that

722

:

might inform my conversation with the You

lighting or scenic or costume designer,

723

:

a props person, whatever it may be.

724

:

This time I'm going to read it for the

sound, like what sounds are suggested in

725

:

the play, because that's going to inform

my conversation with the sound designer.

726

:

Okay.

727

:

Arnold: Okay.

728

:

Gary: Wow.

729

:

Arnold: Yeah.

730

:

That's amazing.

731

:

It's like a, jack of all trades.

732

:

You have to be able to visualize and

anticipate what they're going to be.

733

:

So you get to the final production and,

or, the first when everybody shows up

734

:

that you know exactly what you want to do.

735

:

Gary: Yeah that.

736

:

Not that it's set in amber, right?

737

:

Because then the cast are going

to bring their own unique things.

738

:

So you have to have some flexibility to

be able to adjust based on the great ideas

739

:

that those actors are bringing to you

in the midst of the rehearsal process.

740

:

And sometimes that will affect.

741

:

Like going back to the scenic designer

before something is built and saying,

742

:

we, we talked about this, but I think

let's rethink that based now that I

743

:

could see the action and so you have

to have some flexibility but I'm a

744

:

director who comes in with a pretty

clear idea from the beginning so that I

745

:

can help everybody get on the same page.

746

:

page.

747

:

And as actors make choices, part of what

my job is as a director is to be able

748

:

to see, say, yep, that's a really great

choice, but not for this production.

749

:

I, I, that, yeah, if we were doing

a different production of this, I

750

:

could see how we might go that way,

but that's so to help them edit.

751

:

And you explain that to them though.

752

:

I do not all directors do, but.

753

:

I do,

754

:

Arnold: which it gets, I've seen these

movies and, where the director's sitting

755

:

there and no, that's not what I want.

756

:

And you're yelling at everybody and

the actors are just like, and I think

757

:

the collaborative, I even hate to use

the word collaborative because it,

758

:

but it is where you're willing to.

759

:

Yeah, that's a great idea.

760

:

We're going to incorporate that or

like you just said yeah, that's a

761

:

great idea But it doesn't work for

this particular play I think that is a

762

:

that's an openness that I Sense a lot of

people who are in positions like yours.

763

:

At least this is my perceived

thought is that They don't like that.

764

:

They don't like being told.

765

:

I'm the director.

766

:

I don't, you don't tell me what to do.

767

:

They have this prima donna but

that's more of a stereotype.

768

:

I guess I have of that.

769

:

Gary: That's not been my

experience in the theater.

770

:

Arnold: And that's great.

771

:

That's nice to hear.

772

:

Gary: Yeah, that has

not been my experience.

773

:

It's a very collaborative art form and

When I say that I try to arrive at the

774

:

first rehearsal with some decisions

made I also want to make sure that

775

:

I'm saying I'm not telling the scenic

designer how to design the set I'm

776

:

giving them what my values are I may

say these are some things that are

777

:

important to me that I think the set has

to have and then they bring Something

778

:

amazing and I may say yep that works.

779

:

No, not so much that let's tweak

there I'm not saying that But that's

780

:

true with all of the designers.

781

:

They're bringing their own

artistry to it and the actors

782

:

bring their own artistry to it.

783

:

And so I might say, Oh, I thought of

the scene or this moment differently.

784

:

Huh.

785

:

Now I see what you're doing.

786

:

Yeah.

787

:

Actually, that's a better choice.

788

:

Mark: Okay.

789

:

Cool.

790

:

Cool.

791

:

Wow.

792

:

So it's you're not micromanaging then.

793

:

I hate to even put it into those

terms, but that's exactly what it is.

794

:

Gary: There are directors

who approach it that way.

795

:

And can get terrific results.

796

:

Mark: I would have personally,

I'd have a tough time with not

797

:

tweaking it after every performance.

798

:

I, but I think what Gary's saying

is right, you Put it together

799

:

and let's go forward with it.

800

:

Let it go.

801

:

Yeah, and I think that's important too

802

:

Gary: I will you know in I would have

803

:

Mark: trouble

804

:

Gary: in let's say first national tours

like it might have had a celebrated show

805

:

like the lion king for instance, right?

806

:

There are directors we'll

call them assistant directors

807

:

or associate directors.

808

:

Once that show goes out into the world,

particularly on the first national tours

809

:

worldwide, there are people who are hired

to go and spot check the fidelity of what.

810

:

That makes sense.

811

:

There, that company is not allowed to

change things sometimes even depending on

812

:

the production even to what words are hit

or it is this is the thing and this is the

813

:

thing that the world is expecting to see.

814

:

And there are people who are

quality control agents, frankly.

815

:

That's not true in a regional or

small professional theater world.

816

:

Arnold: Okay, that makes sense.

817

:

Gary Barker's our guest, and if you

have time, folks, you need to make

818

:

time to go see All My Sons by Arthur

Miller at the New Jewish Theater.

819

:

And production goes through April 7th.

820

:

You can get tickets at

the New Jewish Theater.

821

:

NewJewishTheatre.

822

:

org or 314 442 3283.

823

:

You've been a practitioner and

an educator for a long time.

824

:

One of my favorite questions to ask

those individuals is this, I'm thinking

825

:

of going into the theater, I want to

be an actor and maybe I'm in middle

826

:

school or high school or maybe I'm

in elementary school and I see this

827

:

and what do you suggest I do so that

I can be successful in the industry?

828

:

Gary: Oh, there's so there are a

lot of answers to that question.

829

:

I think see as much theater as you can

at all levels Because that's informative

830

:

and educational get as much training

as you can there are technical skills

831

:

that will be beneficial So if someone

knows in junior high that they want to

832

:

do that then start singing voice lessons

Not that all actors sing but it will

833

:

make you better You're it'll make you

speaking voice better get as much dance

834

:

training as you can, even if you don't

want a musical theater career, because

835

:

it's going to make you more in your body.

836

:

So there are technical skills

that take time to develop.

837

:

So the earlier you start, the better

you are, whether that's fencing or

838

:

stage combat or dance, juggling,

clowning, whatever it may be.

839

:

I think I tell my college students

I think this is even more true

840

:

in the profession now to not be.

841

:

limiting in terms of I'm going

to be an actor in the theater

842

:

and that's what I'm going to be.

843

:

It's actually probably better to say I'm

going to be an artist in the theater or

844

:

I'm going to be a theater maker because

the reality is that the business may

845

:

require you to be more than one thing.

846

:

And there's this there's this Stereotype

if you will of the person who's an actor

847

:

and then they're a waiter and right, right

And there is some there's some validity

848

:

in that stereotype but the students that

I know who have graduated and have said

849

:

I'm gonna have a career in the arts and

that may be Arts management and maybe

850

:

I'm stage managing and then I'm in three

plays as an actor and then I'll be a

851

:

director as well They've got multiple

skill sets I have yet to find someone

852

:

who made the decision to have a career

in the arts who didn't have a career in

853

:

the arts I've got a lot of students who

decided I'm going to be an actor who

854

:

have not They've not been able to solely

support themselves from that alone.

855

:

So I, I recommend a sort of ecumenical

approach to thinking about what

856

:

a career in the arts would be

as opposed to an acting career.

857

:

It's fine to have a priority and say,

this is the thing I like the most,

858

:

but it's unusual for somebody to be

able to do that right out of the gate.

859

:

Arnold: Wow.

860

:

That's great.

861

:

Words of wisdom.

862

:

Gary: Oh yeah.

863

:

Those are great words of wisdom.

864

:

Oh yeah.

865

:

Arnold: I would love to compile all these

things in the musicians, the artists,

866

:

the theater people that we've talked

to and put it in one show and say,

867

:

this is, they say very similar things.

868

:

It's very similar things.

869

:

And it speaks to your professionalism and

that level at which you have achieved.

870

:

Because when you are successful in the

business, it's by a lot of hard work.

871

:

It's just doesn't, somebody doesn't come

up to you and say Hey, I want you in my.

872

:

Play or how I want you to direct

this they don't walk up from

873

:

off the street and do that

874

:

Gary: And one more thing I'll add is

that I also think you have to be and

875

:

this may be too much to ask of a Junior

hire, but eventually you have to have an

876

:

understanding of why you do this because

there will be lean times and there will

877

:

be sacrifices that are asked of the

people who love you and that you've

878

:

invited into your life and I find that

it's not enough To say But I love it.

879

:

It actually, I think, and this

reveals my own value system, it

880

:

also, you have to believe that it is

contributing something to the world

881

:

that make those sacrifices worthwhile.

882

:

Arnold: Well said.

883

:

Gary Barker's been our guest.

884

:

Gary, thanks for coming into St.

885

:

Louis in Tuna and talking to us today.

886

:

Thank

887

:

Gary: you so

888

:

Arnold: much.

889

:

It was an honor to

890

:

Gary: be with you.

891

:

And please go see the show.

892

:

Arnold: Please see the show,

All My Sons by Arthur Miller

893

:

at the New Jewish Theater.

894

:

It is playing through April the 7th

and you can get tickets at 314 442

895

:

3283 or online at newjewishtheatre.

896

:

org.

897

:

Wow.

898

:

Yes.

899

:

Mark: I want to go.

900

:

Yes.

901

:

Very intimate theater too.

902

:

Be very fun to see.

903

:

Arnold: I want to encourage people

to go to our new website stlintune.

904

:

com, stlintune.

905

:

com.

906

:

And Mark, we have a word for the day.

907

:

Oh.

908

:

Okay.

909

:

Mark: Usually I can't even pronounce them.

910

:

Arnold: You can do this one.

911

:

Okay.

912

:

Kismet.

913

:

Kismet.

914

:

Kismet.

915

:

Kismet refers to a power that is believed

to control what happens in the future.

916

:

It is synonymous with both.

917

:

Fate, and destiny.

918

:

So it was Kismet for our guest to show

up here today and talk about theater.

919

:

And it's a musical.

920

:

And it's a musical.

921

:

Gary: Okay.

922

:

Kismet is a, Kismet is an old musical.

923

:

Mark: There's a musical named Kismet?

924

:

Yes.

925

:

Oh, okay.

926

:

I would have never known.

927

:

So there you are.

928

:

Yeah.

929

:

So you have any days of the day?

930

:

I'm kidding.

931

:

Yeah, there's a couple it's

National Reconciliation Day.

932

:

This is where, especially as we

get into the election season,

933

:

we have a lot of reconciliation.

934

:

You would hope anyway

that they would do it.

935

:

It's National Ride Your

Horse to a Bar Day.

936

:

Okay.

937

:

That's probably goes way back to

it probably goes way back to when

938

:

Arthur Miller wrote his plays.

939

:

Yeah.

940

:

When he lived in Wyoming.

941

:

Let's see here.

942

:

Yeah, national reconciliation

day is interesting.

943

:

Almost like the day of atonement.

944

:

I guess every day needs to

be national reconciliation.

945

:

Wouldn't that be nice?

946

:

Yes.

947

:

That would be great.

948

:

National DIY Day, do it yourself.

949

:

Do you do any of your stuff?

950

:

I do, yes.

951

:

Do you do a lot of that kind of thing?

952

:

Arnold: After you look at YouTube,

and then you know how YouTube

953

:

has been It's very beneficial.

954

:

Quite a tool.

955

:

Yes.

956

:

Mark: Especially if you're doing some

home improvement kinds of things.

957

:

It is happening well.

958

:

And of course, Autism

Acceptance and Autism Awareness

959

:

Day, yeah, is going on too.

960

:

Okay.

961

:

Which we should all, and I

have many more, but Those are

962

:

just a few of my favorite ones.

963

:

World Party Day.

964

:

To some people that's every day.

965

:

Who knew?

966

:

I know.

967

:

Arnold: Okay.

968

:

I just have a couple of quick humor

things to lighten everybody's day

969

:

because we all get too serious in

life and we need to lighten up folks.

970

:

So now remember Easter

happened just recently.

971

:

Ten kids can pick up 5, 000

eggs in a yard the size of a

972

:

football field in 10 minutes.

973

:

But it takes them three months to

pick up five toys in a small bedroom.

974

:

Boy, that's so true.

975

:

In a packed elevator, everyone's silent.

976

:

They normally look up.

977

:

They don't talk to each other,

look around or do anything.

978

:

My stomach says, I will now

demonstrate the mating call of a whale.

979

:

Speaking of elevators, my wife and I got

stuck in an elevator and when we got home

980

:

we told the story to our kids and they

looked at us and said did you get out?

981

:

My wife and I looked at each other

and made a pact to go ahead and start

982

:

drinking away their college time.

983

:

I think that's alright.

984

:

And apparently, exercise helps

you with decision making.

985

:

It's true.

986

:

I went for a run this morning and

decided I'm never going again.

987

:

Mmm.

988

:

It's important to respect

people who wear glasses.

989

:

They paid money to see you.

990

:

Yeah, oh, that's good.

991

:

And lastly, instead of a sign that says,

do not disturb, I need one that says,

992

:

already disturbed, proceed with caution.

993

:

We need to lighten up, folks.

994

:

I know, yes, we do.

995

:

We need to laugh and have fun.

996

:

Yeah, there's a lot of lighting.

997

:

One reason we did that.

998

:

So we do that every show.

999

:

We end the show with humor.

:

00:52:23,647 --> 00:52:25,627

Actually, that's all for this hour.

:

00:52:25,697 --> 00:52:26,667

And thank you for listening.

:

00:52:26,667 --> 00:52:30,127

If you've enjoyed this episode, you can

listen to additional shows at stlintune.

:

00:52:30,787 --> 00:52:31,157

com.

:

00:52:31,647 --> 00:52:34,597

Consider leaving a review on

Apple Podcasts, Podchaser, or

:

00:52:34,597 --> 00:52:36,137

your preferred podcast platform.

:

00:52:36,477 --> 00:52:39,467

Your feedback helps us reach more

listeners and continue to grow.

:

00:52:39,882 --> 00:52:42,792

I want to thank Bob Berthesel for our

theme music co host, Mark Langston,

:

00:52:43,082 --> 00:52:45,882

and we thank you for being a part

of our community of curious minds.

:

00:52:45,882 --> 00:52:46,072

St.

:

00:52:46,072 --> 00:52:49,342

Louis In Tune is a production

of Motif Media Group and the U.

:

00:52:49,342 --> 00:52:49,492

S.

:

00:52:49,492 --> 00:52:50,142

Radio Network.

:

00:52:50,452 --> 00:52:52,852

Remember to keep seeking, keep

learning, walk worthy, and

:

00:52:52,852 --> 00:52:54,022

let your light shine for St.

:

00:52:54,022 --> 00:52:54,692

Louis In Tune.

:

00:52:55,002 --> 00:52:55,902

I'm Arnold Stricker.

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